Who do Jagex really care about?
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this article has been aprroved by me
your totaly right chemie
and nice work searching that all up
-zero- -
Update something for low leveled players and you get high levelers complaining, however at the very least, they can still play the updates and experience them.
Update something for the high leveled players and the low leveled (or mid leveled) players complain because they CANNOT experience it. There's a major difference here, difference between wanting to and being able to.
Further more, yes the low / mid leveled players have alot of stuff they can do, but seeing something new entering the game and making a difference to you (rather than seeing stuff being added to the high leveled players that you still cannot use) is really motivating.
Further more, it's a tendency high leveled players have (especially maxed ones) they want stuff that requires 99 in every single skill they're 99 in - however when dealing with stuff that they're not 99 in, then it's a different story and lvl 80 suddenly becomes high level (look at how you listed lvl 80 at high level for stealing creation, yet the lvl 78 slayer as high level was not enough to go under the approved bucket?)
Let's face it - jagex has run this kind of updates since they started - and it has worked fairly well so far - however they are slowly adding more and more high leveled content in, just that we, as the ignorant high leveled players we are, tend to not see it. -
I was clear when I wrote this (I hope) that the article was entirely subjective and a view from the top. I selected level 80 as this was the level Jagex themselves used in Stealing Creation and felt it was a fair benchmark. I was actually a little fed up with listening to people moan about updates and was not sure that their complaints matched the reality.
After looking at the updates over a year I think people have a point. I came to the conclusion that there is enough content for LLP's and huge gaps for HLP's. This is evident looking at each of the skills too.
Many skills come with an intrinsic reward on levelling-up. I would include here hitpoints, strength, mage etc. Some skills are a little faster up to 99 (mining, woodcutting and hunting). However there are still many skills have no (or extremely minimal) gain at all past a certain level:
Cooking 91
Crafting 90
Firemaking 92
Farming 85
Fletching 90
Herblore 85
Slay 90
These are the content gaps I feel should be filled, there seems to me to be little reason not to add a level 95 slay monster, a useful level 90 tree that provides the ingredient for a potion that needs level 96 or something that can only be made by people with 99 craft. That was what I was trying to say.
<3
chemie (hopefully a not too ignorant HLP) -
Those are all valid points, and I believe even Jagex themself have actually said that they are looking at doing something along those lines - however, there's one big aspect of game making (and especially for MMO's) that players tend to forget - balancing.
The thing is, adding something new in, which fall within (read is better than something we already have at lower level, and worse than something at a higher level) is "relatively" easy, because there's already some boundaries set, (better than something, worse than something). However, once you need to add something beyond the "best" at the current state - all sorts of issues arrive:
First there's the option of adding something that is not good enough - people complain "hey we got our lvl 90 slayer monster, but it's useless! Whips and d bows are better drops!".
Add something that is too good and you overpower that certain aspect of the game and people complain...
When you do the low / mid level stuff it falls between categories, are usually only useful within a couple of levels - so even if it IS overpowered or underpowered it doesn't matter too much, cause it is only used by the average player over a short amount of time.
Balancing takes alot of time and is usually overlooked.
Oh and also: As stated in my first post; simply agreeing with yourself that there's enough content for low leveled players is a bit ignoring the fact that there needs to be constantly added stuff for these players as that IS needed to make sure we keep those players in the game - to turn them into mid and high leveled players. As time passes by we get more and more high leveled players in the game and more and more content will be for this group. Also remind you though that we are now in an era of RS where ALOT of the high leveled players we have actually think that RS is way too easy to play (I guess it'll always be like this, "oldskool" people wants stuff the way it was "when they were young" because that's how it should be) and simply adding in new better stuff is bound to backfire somewhere.
Next up is the fact that RS actually have a good story backing up everything that is going on - and simply just adding a new super tree out of nowhere is not within the spirit of the game - it would need a quest usually of some sort, or an entire new area to back it up.
And last but not least - high level players expect more - hence the stuff made for us ignorant ones usually requires alot of work, which is another reason as to why we don't get as much as the lower leveled ones.
All in all - I don't think we have anything to complain about - most of the upgrades we get, are ones that has taken alot of attention from Jagex to do - my only "complaint" within that is actually that they need to do more balancing, which is odd, seeing as I'm sure that's where they spend most of their time and also is something they can never get right, cause if they do what I think would be good, I'm sure alot of people would complain that something is now overpowered - because I myself am ignorant and biased on this matter. -
I think many of us have always wanted things added in at higher levels. I've seen it said many times that we'd wish there was something more to do after a level 80-90ish limit. But look at the most popular choices people do to get constant xp (aka going for 99):
Agility: Ape Atoll - 43
Construction: Oak dungeon doors - 73
Mahogany Dining Tables - 52
Cooking: Shark - 80
Crafting: Green bods - 63
Farming: Palm Trees - 63
Magic Trees - 75
Firemaking: Maple - 45
Eucalyptus - 58
Yew - 60
Fishing: Monkfish - 62
Trout/Salmon - 20/30
Fletching: Yew Longs - 70
Maple longs u's - 55
I can list more, but you get the point hopefully. I have never seen anything that is of high level (exc mage longs)(85-90+) that is acceptable to be used as a training method. It's a novelty thing. Take a look back at any skill and see what you can get at what level - have you even done everything? Can you honestly say that you have made/used/caught/whatever in any single skill. I'd doubt it.
Does it matter that most content is not high level based? Not really. Does it matter that they actually update any content? Yes. Being high level in skills, and combat, I see any update as something to try with the levels I might be high in as a bonus help sometimes.
So you're not going to get a level 99 slayer monster, level 78 is a nice level for all. Not too noobish for people 90+ to kill, and not too high for people under 78 to aim for.
As for Jagex, they're out to make money - despite us thinking it's a game, to them it's a business model that they need to have paying customers.
I'd still rather have much more lower content, an occasional high level content than no content at all - sometimes as a high level it's upto you to abuse
things to make it more fun. -
I can see Helen's point here, I think. Basically, where is the incentive for players to advance beyond a certain level when nothing is achieved for reaching that level, or at least nothing substantial? In a lot of cases the only reward you get is being able to do what ever it was before, but slightly better. I think perhaps the quality versus quantity argument can be used here, at least in some cases. The higher level players might receive less updates, but a lot of those updates tend to be more substantial don't they? It is hard to say where they tend to focus. Like Helen mentioned they are out to make money, so no doubt their number one priority is getting new players, but I would also agree a close second would be to keep existing players. I'm sure this can be see by their efforts to readdress certain aspects of the game, their goal for 2009.
I did enjoy reading the discussion.
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I am too lazy to read this mildly long thread (its like 1am and ive been up for 42 hours) so give me a break if this has already been said
Basicly.......lower level players=not as dedicated to the game as higher level players....... If you dont give the lower lvls updates......they quit.........if you dont give the higher lvls updates.......they bitch about it, yet do nothing -
Nice article, Chemie!
Whilst I'm no 80+ in all of the skills, it'd be nice to have some content that is specific for higher levels; like making the slayer Monster higher than 78. -
Being what would be considered "High level" has nothing to do with combat in many cases. I consider myself high level (all 80+ except summoning, which is 77, so pretty close). The thing is, as usual, I can see both sides. As a high lvl, I want more content for ME!! ME ME ME!!! But it seems to me there are way too many gaps within skills that need to be filled, too.
I feel, imho, that Jagex feels the Skill Capes were an answer to those that had no other reason to continue with a skill, once they were able to do all things within that skill. And this is true. How many people had 99 fletching before the capes came out, just for the fact of having a 99? It gave me, and I know many others, the will to get a 99, any 99. Course, that was ages ago that capes came out, so it didn't fit within Chemie's time frame, which is fine, she couldn't do it all. She did a fantastic job with what she did do, and thanks Chemie!QUOTEIn a lot of cases the only reward you get is being able to do what ever it was before, but slightly better.
I wish you could do things better! 99 Farming, and I STILL kill herbs (and trees, and.._) !! Not fair!!
Dang it, I've lost my train of thought and can't remember where I was going here......... *Ish wanders off in a daze* -
QUOTE (Ishtar Z @ May 26 2009, 13:10) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Being what would be considered "High level" has nothing to do with combat in many cases. I consider myself high level (all 80+ except summoning, which is 77, so pretty close). The thing is, as usual, I can see both sides. As a high lvl, I want more content for ME!! ME ME ME!!! But it seems to me there are way too many gaps within skills that need to be filled, too.
I feel, imho, that Jagex feels the Skill Capes were an answer to those that had no other reason to continue with a skill, once they were able to do all things within that skill. And this is true. How many people had 99 fletching before the capes came out, just for the fact of having a 99? It gave me, and I know many others, the will to get a 99, any 99. Course, that was ages ago that capes came out, so it didn't fit within Chemie's time frame, which is fine, she couldn't do it all. She did a fantastic job with what she did do, and thanks Chemie!
I wish you could do things better! 99 Farming, and I STILL kill herbs (and trees, and.._) !! Not fair!!
Dang it, I've lost my train of thought and can't remember where I was going here......... *Ish wanders off in a daze*
go train da combatz./.........`nuff said -
combat bores me meh, I'll get there if I ever get back to playing.
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The issue with this is that higher level actions and skills are often not useable for practical means. For example, you can barely make a profit using skills like herblore, as raw materials are worth more than finished potions. With skills that gather materials, eg. woodcutting, higher level options are not appealing because experience is slower. You get faster xp cutting yew than you do cutting magic. This is perhaps the imbalance that needs to be addressed first?
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QUOTE (Charles @ May 31 2009, 21:51) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The issue with this is that higher level actions and skills are often not useable for practical means. For example, you can barely make a profit using skills like herblore, as raw materials are worth more than finished potions. With skills that gather materials, eg. woodcutting, higher level options are not appealing because experience is slower. You get faster xp cutting yew than you do cutting magic. This is perhaps the imbalance that needs to be addressed first?
This, I believe, is a product of GE and the fact that there's alot of people out there with alot of cash. The people with the cash wants their levels obviously and they pay what is needed - and the ones with the resources (be it many or few) can just dump stuff on the GE to sell it, to whoever bids highest. This is not how things used to work - if you wanted to sell things easily you sold low and let someone else deal with trying to accumlate many and then getting a good price on things - this was how merchanting used to work.
Alot of people used to hate merchanters back in the days - but the truth is, merchanters kept the market we had stable (with the exception of rares - however the situation they caused around there, is no different from the real world when you look at items that cannot be reproduced and has a limited supply - they become more valuable over time) -
Ok after reading the hole thread... and let me say... Some of you can write alot. I have decided that there are good points and some bad as well.
On the point that Old(high lvl) Players will do nothing.
I have had alot of friends stop playing RS and do not pay anymore because they got tired of doing the same thing over and over and over. Because, there was nothing better out there. Most of them got tired of cutting Yew or magic trees over and over or fishing Sharks/Monks things like that... Slayer is one of the Skills that does not get may updates. However, I have not seen an update for slayer for Higher level players since Dark Beasts came out. And On the point that they would have to have good drops for them. I have gotten a few Dark bows so far and I hate them. they are to slow to do realy anything good. I stick with a Rune Xbow
On the point of the mid/low players will not like the updates because they cannot do them.
Remember back when you were under lvl 85 slayer? didn't you want to get 85 slayer to get whips? I feel that a higher level thing would make others want to get there levels up higher. specialy if the drop is higher. On the Wcing thing They could always make a new tree... easy place for it is make a crystal tree. it would be kept in the Elves Kingdom that has yet to be released.
On the point that Low players are not interested in the game.
Do you really think that updateing the game for new ppl is really going to get them to became super players? If a person is not interested in RS they are not going to stay because of an update that come out unless that update is a super update that will make them level extreamly fast right off the bat and that would tip the "Ballance" of the game.
Now for myself:
I don't train Agility because I don't have any new content except for a skills cape to look forward to.
I don't train Fishing unless I need food to do slayer
I don't train Construction because it is expencive and I don't need anything in the upper levels
I don't train Thieving because what really is there to do with Thieving skill? I already have the levels to do any quest.
Now if there were updates that came out for all of them to high level players that I wanted to do I would get the levels up.
<3
Adam -
Regarding Adam's post, I will agree. If it weren't for Pest Control and my unnatural desire to acquire a Slayer Skillcape, I'd be largely bored with the game, tbh. I wait with anticipation for new Quests only so I can keep my Quest Cape. I think Jagex should put more effort into new content for us High Level players, and not just the odd new monster or quest, but new areas. Just my opinion. Your mileage may vary..
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In this Discussion
- [AndySpeed99] May 2009
- [Charles] May 2009
- [chemicalmum] May 2009
- [Corpse90] May 2009
- [Firegod381] June 2009
- [Insinuante] June 2009
- [Ishtar Z] May 2009
- [kastermester] May 2009
- [Rust Buket] May 2009
- [sieg678] May 2009
- [zerotense] May 2009